Saturday, September 18, 2010

Cyril Smith the Man: RAP Take the Great Lump at his Word



As it goes this RAP edition - featuring an exposé of Cyril Smith's activities at Cambridge House which is if anything too polite and generous to him - was published just ahead of a parliamentary election. This had not been planned. The investigation had been running for more than six months. But as the RAP team pointed out Cyril was fighting the election with little or no reference to his party or their (ahem) policy platform.

Cyril Smith MP continued with his personal attacking ways and sneering at the standards of others. He was single handedly leaking shiploads of Westminster secrets of a personal nature. It was vote for Cyril the Man. This brought his character front and centre. So be it.

UPDATE Thu 18:47: Some anonymous reader has had a dig in comments. I'll answer on the face of the blog, including their words in bold:

Anonymous 17:00 say:

I have realised that the reason you ask for the identity of anyone who dares to disagree with you is so that you can trash them and in turn their arguments. So it's strange that you seem to fully support the allegations of someone who has been slightly less than open, transparent and honest in many of his dealings in the last few years.

Really not sure who you are referring to here? Spit it out. Let's have a name. You aren't referring to the authors of the RAP piece or indeed presumably the 2010 Private Eye piece? Which are the items I'm relying on. So what are you on about?

I have no intention of thrashing anyone who is open and honest. I generally only ask commenters to identify themselves honestly when I believe they are themselves vested interests or might as well be. For example that shrivelled mescalic worm David Hennigan has a track record of assuming identities and posting bile and mischief even when and where he promises he will *never* post except under his own name.

Malcolm Porn-O at Rochdale Online knows Hennigan posts under all sorts of assumed names and has a squadron of winged monkeys with multiple personalities who would do likewise at his behest. "Lie my pretties!" Rochdale Observer and MEN almost certainly also have IP records showing this activity. In electronic forums and also in furnishing incredibly inauthentic letters for publication on behalf of sock puppets.

Hennigan has been forced to retract and apologise for and desist from some of this poison. he was sacked by Paul Rowen - who tolerated drunkenness, smearage, lies and deceit, inappropriate behaviour and pure vile nastiness but finally came the straw that broke the Rowen's back. Wonder what that was? Actually Rowen is no longer keeping it to himself. But that's for another time.

"Julia Mahon" did not really post those comments [on Cyril posts]. I think it is reasonable to challenge whoever did put up these Henniganesque comments to show themselves. Don't you? If they come from the paid employee of an MP or of a Council group or of a party it makes a difference as far as I'm concerned. Don't you think?

Anonymous 17:00 went on:

You might disagree but I know it's would you would be saying if these claims were being made in the other direction.

This is just too cryptic for me friend. Also ungrammatical. Skipping words rather than slurring? Slow down. Kick back. Smell the coffee, or the roses.

And what's more anonymous 17:00 adds:

I'm equally sure that if a Lib Dem or Conservative had put out leaflets inciting race hate with the aim of "making the white folk angry" you would have been up in arms about it.

They - Tories and FibDems - have done this sort of thing and not infrequently. Sometimes directly, sometimes via proxies.

Getting people to vote and/or stopping them vote and/or having them vote in certain ways is of course the objective of the candidate, the agent and the apparatchiks. There is a practice in all parties of identifying who is interested in what message and giving them that message. FibDems have famously taken this to the nth degree. Politics is about getting things done and you have to win to have any agency in that. To state the blooming obvious.

The words you quote are I understand from some rather silly private email and not from the relevant candidate but from someone shooting the breeze. I'd be interested to have a close look at Mr Hennigan's postbags, wouldn't you? Some vile stuff there I'd expect, wouldn't you? In fact Hennigan shared quite a lot of his vileness on Rochdale Online forums and in blog comments.

Some examples.

In 2004 Chris Davies MEP and his then colleague Sajjad Karim made an appeal to voters who were asian and muslim to vote in a communalistic way [in the European elections]. Pretty shabby I think. Davies defended this simply saying that his claims were true i.e. that Karim was the only asian and muslim candidate from any party high enough on a list to be elected.

Yes, true, but what were his policies? There was no real indication of these policies. They were hidden from the electorate you might say. Or this segment of the electorate. I would always rather be represented by someone with similar ideas and policies than someone down my street, of the same race, of the same gender, of the same background etc etc. Wouldn't you?

Chris Davies is and was a fool to do this. It green lights the BNP doing the same kind of thing IMO.

One of Sajjad's cronies was Faraz Bhatti of course. Elected as a Lib Dem cllr - and privately comunalistic and nasty I'm hearing in an extreme way - but he soon followed Karim to the Tories - where the same traits have been displayed. His attempt to get a young somethingly hot-headed lad - Hussain - elected as an accomplice in 2009 included the lovely ruse of distributing some dishonest hate mongering from Hizb-ut_Tahrir alongside their bland Tory blandishments. This material included the assertion that the Holy Qur'an was to be banned along with some possibly photoshopped picture of GW Bush and G Brown together.

The purpose of this Tory distributed leaflet was "making the brown folk angry" although I can't say I have an email in which any of the conspirators stated this as a specific objective. They didn't need to. It's obvious.

Of course another instance of this was in Rochdale 2005 when local forces - let's leave it at that for now, but there is a post in the pipe ready almost to be launched - distributed leaflets designed again for "making the brown folk angry" which claimed inter alia that the Labour candidate was Jewish which was untrue and hardly relevant to the voting decisions of an electorate who really ought to be concerned about which party or candidate would serve them best.

That electorate picked Paul Rowen which probably shows that the vile leaflet worked and led to a rather stupid suggestion which put Rowen and Hennigan into power. Yeuch!

Finally, though I have not been able to make it to Watkins's expensive and probably futile court hearing in Saddleworth, I do have some insight into the way the said muppet Watkins waged his own campaign. They say if you want to cry foul in such cases, say something is not equitable, you really need to have clean hands yourself. Elwyn Watkins has some of the grubbiest hands in the business.

I've heard that one of the things EW bah gum published amongst about 60 (yes SIXTY) significant distinct pieces of print in the 6 months to the election was a leaflet/letter, in Urdu I believe, which was naturally enough posted without the benefit of an English translation to muslim households. This, I'm told, had the express purpose of "making the brown folk angry" as did a MPACUK leaflet which was possibly in English only and is openly published by MPACUK, not sure.

So, faced with this, one of the things the often robust street fighting Labourites did was have the Urdu translated and show this to other audiences.

It all gets a bit viral this stuff doesn't it?

A leaflet along these lines was used by Manchester Lib Dems in 2003 in the local government elections in which I stood. With the express purpose of "making the brown folk angry". About the war. It was concocted by a known Lib Dem activist whose name and mobile phone number were on it.

The text was changed mid campaign from something a bit illegal. Both versions were distributed without a P&P or any identification. But it clearly drove the Lib Dem vote.

There are lots of examples and I don't really like any of them - including those I know about from Comrade Phil - however, these sorts of things were in use by both sides in Oldham and Saddleworth. And once they start e.g. MPACUK/ARM in the next constituency in 2005 and Elwyn this time and so on and so forth, they escalate and become the norm. Tit for tat.

My ridicule and disdain for Elwyn's case is on the basis that he would be a rotten MP (as he was/is a rotten councillor IMO) and he doesn't have the sense to recognise that he was using the same tactics and stands to lose his shirt and what's more his bollocks challenging what is normal for the context up there in them there hills. For defamation purposes they talk of "the cut and thrust of politics" or the like.

It's endemic in the area. Regrettable but true. I may well re-write this as a blogpost with links and illustrations. Though I'm a bit busy. Comments and more examples welcome.

20 comments:

benchilltory said...

So let me get this straight.
1 there were allegations that Smith abused young boys at Cambridge house.
2 the police investigated this
3 no charges were brought
you would therefore assume that Smith did nothing wrong
What you seem to be suggesting is that there was some establishment cover up and that Smith did have a case to answer.
There is a touch of Guardianitis about your reporting of this story,muddying the waters with references to bingo crimes, knowle view, asbestos, stefan kisko and Cyrils smith weight problems.
He may have been an unpleasant individual,a bully, having dodgy business practices and been a prime exponent of the art of pork barrel politics, but none of these things make him a paedo.
Given that Smith is now late,stories concerning his alleged activities are pointless ,he cannot be brought to court.any alleged victims would not gain any closure,in deed smiths demise could lead to an outbreak of lurid allegations which can neither be defended nor proved.
The only way to go ,is to concentrate on the alleged cover up, the who was part of this cover up and more importantly why.
When people go down the conspiracy theory route the usually fail to answer the question why.
Smith was after all a small town politician,a member of a small parliamentary group,in no way was he centre stage to political decision making, why would the "establishment" want to protect him

Chris Paul said...

The police investigated, found there was a cracking case, but found the way blocked. There was a cover up with strings pulled at the highest level and in effect a miscarriage of justice.

Remember that both Tories and Labour were considering getting into bed with Smith and his chums. He might have been a Minister and was party whip during the Lib-Lab pact. At the time he was a lot more than some small town idiot MP. Cyril seems to have coat tailed the cover up afforded to some chaps that were getting dirty tricks when he was in fact a dirty old bully.

Cover up. Miscarriage of justice.

Not the only one of either of these in Smith's career.

If you are patient you will learn more BHT. In the meantime I cannot for the life of me see why a Tory from Benchill in Wythenshawe would wish to make excuses for a lifelong slimeball which the Liberal Democrats have on a pedestal.

As it goes on the weekend immediately after Smith died there was a story in the nationals of the head of some school who had been jailed - 30 years after the event - for extraordinarily similar crimes and/or misdemeanours.

Clearly with Smith's activity coming to light when one of his victims turned abuser and with a lot of cover ups and let offs on sex crime peppering Rochdale's subsequent history there's more to worry about than a bit of ill-judged corporal punishment.

More soon. If I were you I would not even consider defending Smith or his activities or the cover ups of these activities.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Chris Paul said...

No No No No

Cut it out

Julia Mahon said...

BHT may be a Tory and from Wythenshawe but is totally right on this issue. Allegation made, investigation investigated, nothing discovered.

As for your increasingly hysterical claims about cover-ups and collusion, this is so typical of Labour attack poodles through the ages. Any crap that the party isn't prepared to throw itself is given to the grateful little no-maters who are happy to type with one hand.

I happen to be in possession of evidence of a certain Manchester Labour council candidate who made racist and homophobic commenst on the answerphone of one of his opponents. Do you know of any media outlet that might be interested?

Chris Paul said...

Well "Julia Mahon" welcome, whoever you may actually be. Perhaps you'd care to explain who you are and where you're coming from? Your first paragraph and the BHT, whoever they may be, "thesis" are utterly incorrect.

1. "Allegations made" - in the case of Cambridge House and a related incident from SEVEN witnesses. Allegations incidentally endorsed at least in part by Liberal Party leader David Steel and by at least one Cambridge House worker, though both of these, like some unapologetic Bishop, belittle the serious offences that were reported.

2. Investigation carried out - huge amounts of evidence gathered, and remember the focus was almost exclusively on a couple of years and just one institution. And then what happened? Investigation spiked with strings pulled at the very highest level, file stopped from progressing to charges, findings covered up, mystery of where file is stored, Special Branch/MI5 interest, MP retires. And then to use your words yes "investigation investigated" and found to have been pretty compelling.

3. "Nothing discovered" - is an absolute LIE!! How can you claim that? Much was discovered. There is mroe to come. Much more. The problem was it was then covered up. No one was charged. No one was cleared. At least seven victims and in at least one case their next generation of victims - from this one institution and one little spate of events - were faced with their attacker let off scot free.

Cyril was Labour when these attacks took place. But Labour would not have allowed this vile man's career to progress so he shipped out just as soon as he'd got the mayor's chain round his neck. Incidentally a man with a similar history was jailed for 21 years just recently. He too had Labour connections.

Private Eye is hardly an organ of the Labour Party. And as it goes it has been a coalition partner of the current miserable sell out Lib Dems who wrote the Eye story.

Perhaps you'd like to send a copy of your evidence of this ansaphone message you claim to possess? As this stands you are smearing the world in a Henniganesque fashion and if you can't put up you should shut up. If you don't produce this "evidence" we must assume you are quite simply lying.

PS "Julia" .. you really should use your own name when you write on here. Please. Whoever you are you're quite as vile as that David Hennigan whose turns of phrase and attitude to life you appear to have adopted to the full.

There was a follow up story in the RAP the next month. Perhaps I'll post some of that also.

Get Real said...

Plus of course, Cyril was a Labour party member at the time of the alleged abuse AND original cover up via the late night meeting and telephone call to that there London by the then Rochdale Labour MP Jack MacCann.

Sorry "Julia" - it seems avowed Labour supporter Chris Paul has bitten the bullet and investigated inconvenient truths about Labour party activity in the 1960's.

The adoration and silence about Cyril Smith from all parties in Rochdale is remarkable.

The awkward silence remains.

tory boys never grow up said...

"BHT may be a Tory and from Wythenshawe but is totally right on this issue. Allegation made, investigation investigated, nothing discovered."

So where is the statement by the DPP or the Police to this effect? If you read what is said by RAP it isn't as although they were not given the opportunity to respond - but instead they prefer to say no comment. The DPP certainly wouldn't behave in such a fashion to day where there is an investigation into a public figure witness the cash for honours affair.

Close observers of the Smith family will note a similar manner of rebuttal to the recent allegations regarding Smith's relationship with the asbestos industry.

tory boys never grow up said...

"I happen to be in possession of evidence of a certain Manchester Labour council candidate who made racist and homophobic commenst on the answerphone of one of his opponents. Do you know of any media outlet that might be interested?"

If you really have such evidence then it should be passed to the Police/DPP so that it can be properly investigated first - on the other hand you may just be interested in making cheap political capital so send it to the Press then.

Not Harry'smate said...

Doesn't cocaine cause bursts of self confidence followed by bouts of paronia, inpotence and impetigo?

Then again, I don't have a medical qualification so I'll just carry on squeezing testicles of hapless victims whilst young, ambitious PR types turn a blind eye...

Julia Mahon said...

Sorry, I didn't realise that Cyril Smith was in the Labour Party at the time of the allegations. It makes me think that people like Chris Paul would not be regurgitating this stuff if Smith had still been one of the brothers.

What else could explain Paul's almost complete silence on the events in Oldham East. These are current events with doucumentary evidence not ages old, paranoia-fuelled stories that have little to bwack them up other than Labour's new found zeal to "uncover" them.

Oh and what exactly do you want me to provide to reveal my identity and why don't you ask the same of all the Labour troglodytes who appear anonomously on here.

Chris Paul said...

Listen "Julia" the reason you're being challenged to reveal your name is that unlike those using pen names and so on you are trying to pass yourself off as a female commenter called "Julia Mahon".

You are in fact channeling as a "sock puppet" for seriously unpleasant characters who have been on in various identities and as anonymous, despite promises to never write here without using their own real names. These people have a track record of sock puppeting and manipulating online discussions, forums and comments as long as both your arms Ms Mahone.

If Cyril had been Labour he'd never have made MP and he'd probably have made it to Strangeways instead of Westminster. Cyril knew the game was up in Labour and thence having bagged the mayoral chain he went independent and then, sensing that he couldn't do Tory, he clowned about as a larger-than-life goon and gravitated to the ragbag of biddable opportunists that was the Rochdale Liberal Party.

He was not however in any real sense Liberal politically.

As for Woolas and Watkins, they're Ws both and I've made it plain that's what I think. I'm towards the end of a careful investigation and given the timetable from here in I think we can afford to wait a couple of days for that one.

Rochdale Rapper said...

Over on that there M.E.N. website there are stout defenders of Cyril that keep asking why no-one ever pushed the sex abuse issues whilst Cyril was alive.

Apart from RAP, Private Eye, New Statesman and a few obscure articles in recent obscure magazines... they have a point. Perhaps that is the point - the mainstream media didn't touch the reports of Cyril touching. Does that mean it wasn't newsworthy? Does that mean there was an investogation and Cyril was cleared of all allegations? Does that mean this was all some bitter vendetta against someone who "jumped ship" from the Labour party? All valid points.

But the elephant in the room regards the claims of systematic sex abuse at various institutions for people that have been "visited" by Cyril Smith: Hostels, Boxing Clubs, Town Twinning visits, Home Office Approved Schools...

As for people keeping quiet. Yes those who knew should have spoken up - and shame onthem for their silence.

But there have been various blogs that have gone into great, damning detail about the enigma that was Cyril Smith. He knew about them before he popped his clogs. Paul Rowen even mentioned some of the "smear sites" in his "letter from Parliament" in 2009. The fool even made the same clumsy mistakes that are being re-hashed by Gormless Norm now...

Tim said...

"If you really have such evidence then it should be passed to the Police/DPP so that it can be properly investigated first - on the other hand you may just be interested in making cheap political capital so send it to the Press then."

Seconded.

Chris Paul said...

This "Julia Mahon" won't be making any police reports Tim, and won't be sending anything to the press either. All mouth and trousers. The ultimate cross dressing vinegar sock puppet.

Cyril was accused of what he may have considered to be little more than acting "in loco parentis" with wayward lads who needed to feel the plump flesh of his larger than life hand on their boney buttocks. Oh, and some other stuff that's arguably a little more than even most "loco" parents would stoop to. For fear of arrest and incarceration.

There was a thorough investigation by police and later a thorough investigation by journalists - all relating to just one institution where Cyril's behaviour was discovered when a victim repeated the offending - but if the DPP ever got the file they were instructed to cover it up. Special Branch and MI5 may also have been involved.

David Steel admitted but belittled the offending. A staff member/Smith stooge has been on Rochdale Online admitting but belittling the offending. Saying specifically that it stopped short of being "paedo".

I'll buy that in this case. It was just bullying, blackmail, duress, recruitment and guilting ("I got what I deserved", "I allowed Smith to do this to me", "I was 15 and consented to the punishment", "I didn't mind him doing the creepy medical exam"), abuse of power, inappropriate touching, tough love, this'll hurt me more than it hurts you, merely discipline that was of its time.

Cyril Smith was vile. He should never have been an MP. He wept and he was saved by the establishment. Stories were silenced with a flexible combination of threats and bribes.

I'm still waiting for any news of any significant positive achievement for the town. Perhaps "Julia Mahon" can provide a list? One for the Rowen/Hennigan "beverage group" combination would also be handy.

Anonymous said...

I've read through the statements you've provided. There appears to be a strange repetition of certain phrases and a common odd use of language. If I was cynical I could almost assume that they had all been written by the same person. In order to clear this mystery up maybe we should all buy a ticket to Ryde.

On the other matter it may be true that Watkins and Woolas are both Ws, but remember that you're a C and a P.

Chris Paul said...

Ho ho ho Anonymous 16:42, that's very droll. A C and a P?! Ho.

It would be a bit tedious if the same person or person were posting under different names. That is my issue with so called "Julia Mahon", various "Anonymous" and when he grows some "David Hennigan".

There's something in the water in Rochdale (also Oldham and Saddleworth and Calderdale and so on) that encourages either a form of groupthink and/or certain people posting in multiple identities.

Sometimes certain drunken, cokey, careless, vile characters give themselves away with the same anecdotes and/or catch words. Malcolm Porn-O (the publisher) is a dab hand at Rochdale Online, and the disgraceful and embarrassing Hennigan is despite claims that he never posts without using his own name (ha bloody ha), and Adam "The Power" power was too.

Perhaps one or two of those critical of Sir Squirrel also have more than one identity in play. Hard to be sure. This is a problem over much of the blogosphere if there is no registration of commenters. When LOL write about Rochdale these Rochdale ways come and visit. Ways that have been developed under the absolutely filthy politics of the Rowen-Hennigan-Smith-Smith-PornO-Journeaux claque going on clique.

Chris Paul said...

PS

Didn't miss the threatening reference to "Ryde" (sic) dear commenter, however this "we know where you live" reference might be a bit off track in this case. But is Norman planning sending a delegation to have a word?

Anonymous said...

I have realised that the reason you ask for the identity of anyone who dares to disagree with you is so that you can trash them and in turn their arguments. So it's strange that you seem to fully support the allegations of someone who has been slightly less than open, transparent and honest in many of his dealings in the last few years.

You might disagree but I know it's would you would be saying if these claims were being made in the other direction.

I'm equally sure that if a Lib Dem or Conservative had put out leaflets inciting race hate with the aim of "making the white folk angry" you would have been up in arms about it.

Chris Paul said...

Anonymous 17:00 say:

I have realised that the reason you ask for the identity of anyone who dares to disagree with you is so that you can trash them and in turn their arguments. So it's strange that you seem to fully support the allegations of someone who has been slightly less than open, transparent and honest in many of his dealings in the last few years.

I'll answer this and the rest on the face of this post as an update. As a comment really would be too long to do the subject justice.