Respectcoalition: Commentisfree reply to "Orwell's Ghost"

[Written at 6pm on 21st but will post near top of blog first of all then put it back in context.]

Orwellsghost

Thanks you for your comment on my comment. You quote me:
"In essence I agree with Salma Yaqoob that everyone should take an interest in, recognise, and take part in Holocaust Memorial Day.".

And you challenge me thus:
"Why? If you object to the politicisation of the Holocaust from the right wing Zionist perspective, then surely you should from the either the far right and far left wings of Pan-Islamist nationalism."

Well, perhaps. OK, not 'everyone' then. Replace will 'all people of goodwill'. But I did not object to the politicization (blah blah) in my comment. You are conflating my points with those made by others.

You say:
"The Holocaust should be commemorated directly only by those communities who suffered from it and not from ideologues such as Yaqoob who apologise for totalitarianism of the kind that has led to genocides and mass terror across the globe."

I will come back to Salma Yaqoob and your comments. But HMD's website http://www.hmd.org.uk/about explains the wider scope:

"Holocaust Memorial Day’s aims are to:

Remember all victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution ; Jews, Roma and Sinti (Gypsies), East European civilians, Russian prisoners of war, trade unionists, communists, political opponents, disabled people, Jehovah’s Witnesses, gay men and lesbians and Black Germans.

Reflect upon those affected by more recent atrocities, in Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia and Kosovo.

Educate about the dangers of anti-Semitism, racism and all forms of discrimination."

And further why it is of relevance to all people of good will:

"Holocaust Memorial Day is an issue for everyone. The lessons of the Holocaust are of universal relevance and have implications for us all. Holocaust Memorial Day offers an opportunity for people in the UK in the 21st century to reflect upon, consider and discuss how those events still have relevance for all members of today’s society without detracting from or lessening the Jewish aspect of Holocaust remembrance. Holocaust Memorial Day is distinct from Yom HaShoah, the Jewish day of remembrance for the Jewish victims of the Nazis that falls in late April."

You continue:

"After all, the Holocaust really is something particular mainly for the Jews."

But although this is true to an extent there is no good reason to exclude all the other groups who were slaughtered in this operation. The ones for example who are specifically listed as specifically included by HMD. And others. Or do you think there is?

Do you actually object to the inclusion now of Rwanda and so on? And gays, gypsies, communists, trade unionists and the list goes on.

You then say:
"Perhaps, it might be a good idea to have a Genocide Memorial Day and to include the victims of Leninist and Stalinist terror famines ( including the Muslim Kazakhs whose population plummeted 40% in the first few years of the Soviet Union ). I wonder whether Yaqoob would be so keen to participate in that?"

You might be surprised at who turned up to protest Stalin's activities.

But you bash on:
"Don't forget the Twenty Million who perished under Stalin and the responsibility that Lenin had in creating the Soviet state that made it possible. Nor the masses of people who perished during the Iranian Revolution and the subsequent Iran-Iraq War between 1980-88 which was a product primarily of that revolution but also, it has to said, aided by callous US realpolitik too."

OK. Orwellsghost, if you draft a letter requesting that either (a) HMD broaden their wider scope still further to include Stalin's victims or (b) that the HMD constituents should participate and as experts help facilitate a separate GMD then I will consider signing alongside you comrade.

As I wrote before I think this Amis idea about "species consciousness" is very fertile ground. And it is really saddening when the same rhetoric and violence appears on all sides of all the arguments. There are other ways.

Back to Salma Yaqoob. I don't know her personally. Perhaps you do. But you have her down as an "ideologue" and a Stalin supporter. I really don't know what you mean by the first label really. And the second seems like little more ignorant name calling really. Sorry if that is unfair, but that is how it seems.

But more than this I do not have the faintest what Salma's route was into Respect or the SWP. Perhaps via the broader anti war movement?

But you've not changed my mind. I still believe it is a good thing for communities to work together on this. And that means we include asian people whether they are godless communists, devout religionists of all strains, or perhaps from a more secular mainstream.