Tuesday, May 27, 2008

Harriet Harman: Far From the Maddening Fraud

In the light of her own campaign of fibbery and sentiment to persuade MPs to vote for change in the abortion limit - including a sordid alliance with far right "christian" elements - it seems quite remarkable that the maddening fraud Nadine Dorries should describe opponents using true facts and real figures to make their own case as "guilty" of whipping. Here's the Mail quoting the Fibber:

‘The tactics used to defeat my proposals were disgraceful,’ said Ms Dorries. ‘Ms Harman ran a fully-fledged whipping operation in all but name. This was supposed to be a non-political debate but she has politicised it.
‘The case for reducing the time limit for abortions to 20 weeks is irrefutable both on moral and scientific grounds. We are not giving up on this. From now on, the gloves are off.’

Goodness me. So all that lying and cheating (and "whipping") was Nads with the gloves on? Response please:

Ms Harman last night denied she had acted improperly. ‘It is deplorable that people who lost the argument now attempt to cry foul,’ she said. ‘It was a free vote and I worked with others to ensure that as many MPs as possible voted for the status quo.
‘We won because we had the most persuasive arguments. It is totally untrue that there was any kind of whipping operation.’

PICTURE FROM THE MAIL: Neither Harman nor the Deputy Speaker can believe the lies tripping off Nadine's forked tongue. Below, the changes in the timing of terminations under the current and previous limit (BBC). The survival rate at 23 weeks has remained completely unchanged in the last two decades.


Red Maria said...

Leaving aside Nadine Dorries for a moment, the problem is that there are persistent and credible stories that Labour MPs are whipped on abortion votes.
For example, Ronnie Campbell MP has in the past said "to say that Labour MPs have a free conscience vote on abortion is an absolute lie."
This disrespect for Labour MPs consciences was never on more shameless display than a few months ago when we saw that cabinet ministers no less had to threaten resignation to secure free votes on three contentious parts of the HFE Bill at second reading. They're still absurdly expected to vote for the entire bill at third reading. This despite the clear precedent that votes concerning the beginning and end of human life are never whipped.
And even this tiny, pathetic concession was inevitably accompanied by the usual noisy chorus of anti-Catholic voices in full shriek mode.
This one can't just be dismissed as another of Nadine Dorries' fantasies, I'm afraid.

Chris Paul said...

Clearly Nadine Dorries thinks that campaigning and persuading on one side of the argument (her side) is OK, whereas the same on the other side is cheating. That is not a sustainable argument.

Nadine is a deeply dishonest person and has carried this lifelong talent for self delusion and fibbery through to her campaigning on this matter. Harriet is right. It's sour grapes.

Interestingly I was brought up a Catholic and Nadine was brought up a more or less atheist - until she became a social churchian.

If my MP ever has to take a decision around a possible termination they are welcome to factor in their faith at that point. As I would, or my partner would, or my daughter would.

But how dare they seek to impose any such article of faith on everyone else?

Church and State should be separate, as catholics have every reason to support.

Red Maria said...


Why are you digressing? I'm not talking about Nadine Dorries. Nadine Dorries doesn't interest me. I am interested in the persistent and credible stories that Labour MPs don't get the free vote of conscience, to which they are entitled, on issues concerning human life.

And why the intemperate attack on Roman Catholicism? Another digression. There are plenty of Pro-Lifers who aren't Roman Catholics or even believers at all.
But since you mention it, the RC Church isn't seeking to "impose" an article of faith on anybody. It isn't seeking to have the doctrine of say, the Virgin Birth or Transubstantiation given legal recognition. Abortion comes under the category of Natural Law. Surely, as one who was brought up a Roman Catholic, you know that?

Instead of digressing could you address the point about Labour MPs being whipped on abortion votes? And rather than focusing on what Nadine Dorries has to say (she is a Tory and therefore as far as I am concerned, her views are irrelevant) could you comment on what Ronnie Campbell has said? Here it is again:
"to say that Labour MPs have a free conscience vote on abortion is an absolute lie."