Monday, June 16, 2008

Sunny Hundal: Calls for Communalistical Conservatism

It was almost 4 am in the morning. Dawn was breaking. And something was dawning. Sunny Hundal sitting at his keyboard and uttering what is probably the biggest pile he has ever come up with. I don't know why. Inexplicable.

Is this just link bait? Or for a dare? Sunny suggests that:

"It makes more sense for brown and black people, who will overwhelmingly face the brunt of this police-state legislation, to vote Conservative."

This line is prefaced by the ridiculous idea that New Labour wants to see every brown person in the country locked up. And apart from the thinness of his case for this idea of his it is surely anathema to be setting yourself up and calling for such ovine block voting?

In Manchester of course Tories campaigned with Hizb_ut-Tahrir literature as well as their own. Their track record nationally is one of a stunning and persistent attack on working people of all hues, of running the economy for the selfish interest of their class and against the rest of us, of actually using internment laws to lock up 2,000 people, and of opposing the majority of developments of equality and fairness proposed in this country.

And of course they supported the wars of the day with more enthusuasm and a much higher proportion of their votes than Labour ever did.

Is Sunny quite mad? He will of course know that his hero David Davis not only would have hanged various wrongfully convicted Irish convicts but also would lock up every asylum seeker and refugee he can get his hands on.

UPDATE: 13 Hours on Sunny came clean. As much of a wind up as Chasing Bush II: Operation Manticore.


Letters From A Tory said...

Actually, I think you'll find that Labour have been remarkably successful at attacking the poor, attacking the rich, creating the super-rich in the first place, locking up people without trial, keeping the DNA of innocent people, introducing thousands of pages of new (and often pointless) laws, and generally bringing about the destruction of fairness and equity in this country.

jailhouselawyer said...

Chris: Are you going to the Liberal-Left blogging summit on the 25th?

Cassilis said...

Link bait or not Chris would be good to hear your views on the substance of the issue?

Rumbold said...

Every pro-Labour blogger should hang his or her head in shame after the 42 days legislation was introduced.

Sunny said...

The title doesn't even make sense!

the prefaced line may have been ridiculous, but I'm not sure why, given traditional immigrant support for Labour over immigration policies, that should carry on.

Why is it communal for Asians to vote on self-interest but not for working class people to support Labour?

Chris Paul said...

I'll start with Sunny's complaint about the title. Perhaps I too rushed into "print"?

But calling for all black and brown people to vote against many of their class interests in this way is a kind of communalism. And on the ridiculous premise that this (often ridiculous) government wants to lock up every black and brown citizen and resident with this proposed (arguably ridiculous) law.

On the last line:

Why is it communal for Asians to vote on self-interest but not for working class people to support Labour?

It isn't self interest Sunny! Not by any stretch of the imagination.

It is right that Asian people (and other BME people) should vote on self interest. But how can you exclude Asian people from the working class in this way? Or exclude working people and Labour voters generally from concerns on and opposition to 42 days?

No party should expect to shoo any community through their lobbies just because say it was Labour that finally sorted out independence, or was and is most helpful on migration, or introduced minimum wage and many beneficial family supporting measures, or has set the pace on equality and protection of minorities, or has skillfully redistributed (not enough, but skillfully) to the lowest four deciles, or has also set the pace on representation within its own ranks of MPs and Mayors and councillors and so on.

Those might be arguments against this knee jerk of yours. As might the 139 Labour rebels on the war. Or the Tory vote on that war.

There is a utilitarian argument for 42 days which runs that whatever the potential limits on the rights of the few this might protect the rights of the many.

There is a kind of Blairy insurance actuary logic that runs that the result of not stopping a plot would be so bad that a bit of badness is justified to stop it.

And there is a governance argument that says it is better to have a law in place against the day it is needed than to cobble something together when an issue comes up.

Smith and Brown use all three. I'm not won over by these any more than you are Sunny. But voting Tory en masse? Please, no. Just look at a day or two's debates in Hansard and find back bench Tories showing the party's true colours.

Just examine David Davis' full views on equality and liberalism.

Chris Paul said...

PS Rumbold ... this law is at least 15 months away from being introduced?? But yes of course, if you read the left blogs you won't find too many people content with never mind proud of the legislation. But this does not mean we'll all be voting Tory. That's ridiculous.

Chris Paul said...

John: I'm not sure if I'm going to the bloggers summit. I might get lynched!

Cassilis: Some arguments above. I still think 24 hours on that what Sunny has proposed is utterly ridiculous.

Cassilis said...

I agree Chris but you're being selective in your application of ridicule - it's either ridiculous to package ethnic groups into block votes or it's not. Your 'list' of reasons why Asian voters SHOULD stick with Labour is as ridiculous as Sunny's post - you position yourself at the opposite end of the argument which makes your case as extreme as his.

Identity politics are always flawed...

Chris Paul said...

Don't agree Liam.

I give examples of some issues for which Labour has a specific track record on which many Asian voters and voters from the working poor in general, "hard working families" and those in solidarity with them seeking to vote in their self interest or on their principles may like to ponder.

A good number of these appeals for a vote are nothing at all to do with race or other identity.

I believe there are more representatives of all working class segments among Labour party ranks than in other parties.

They are socio economic reasons that affect working people, particularly the working poor, and also the more well off who feel solidarity with these others.

I would expect many Asian people to be in a place economically where they feel voting Tory is in their interest fiscally. They may choose to leave the ladder in place or pull it up behind them.

I am a bit baffled as to why too many would vote Lib Dem on economic or social or political grounds. But that's another question. To which the following gives a partial answer.

What I am saying is the polar opposite of saying - as now Tory Sajjad Karim did on his Lib Dem Euro election literature in 2004 - that you're brown so vote brown. Which is a construction that Nick Griffin might be proud of.

Very importantly such literature from Sajjad DID NOT specify any of the tax or social policies that the Lib Dems and their European group held dear. And it worked. Will he do it again as a Tory?? We'll not have to wait too long to find out.

And now his little Tory friends in Whalley Range ward at least use Hizb_ut-Tahrir propaganda to call for a Tory vote on the grounds that "they" are to ban the Koran.

Sunny said...

Chris - what if their worry about being locked up, or other impact of the govt's anti-terror legislation becomes bigger than other considerations?

Why else are working class people deserting Labour? They're doing so because they don't see the party asinterested in their economic interests. Right? So in other words, they've stopped believing Labour is right for them.

Asians are working class and middle class. Same with blacks. The point is, what if security considerations become bigger than other issues?

Anonymous said...

I hate Sunny Hundal he is a bully and a cuny.