Tuesday, September 09, 2008

Libdemologists: Benefit Fraud / Registration of Donations


Blackburn with Darwen Lib Dems have excelled their franchises low and drooping standards of behaviour. :

TWO controversial councillors have been readmitted to their party’s ranks on Blackburn with Darwen’s ruling group.
Coun Arif Waghat, who was given an eight-week suspended sentence for a £3,000 benefit fraud, and Coun Yusuf Sidat, who left the borough for three months and faced a police investigation, had been excluded from the Liberal Democrat group.

Meanwhile the same Lib Dem leak machine tells me: (a) They are running scared as there are definitely some humungous problems ahead as a cache of documents showing St Cyril up in spades have escaped captivity; and (b) The Rochdale Lib Dem Group have sacked Dave Hennegan as their paid propagandist*.

Cuddly Dave was apparently paid by a levy on all Lib Dem councillors - not an unusual arrangement around the Town halls of the country, and not just for Lib Dems - but I can find no sign at the Electoral Commission of any registered donations since December 2004. Almost four years ago.

My search (for donations EVER to Rochdale Lib Dems) matched eight donations (all declared as cash) with an overall total of £ 37,556.80.

Rochdale AU / Friends of Rochdale Lib Dems / 27/03/01 / £ 1,591.00

Rochdale AU / Friends of Rochdale Lib Dems / 27/04/02 / £ 1,617.00

Rochdale AU / Rochdale Lib Dem Council Group / 27/01/03 / £ 3,000.00

Rochdale AU / Friends of Rochdale Lib Dems / 11/03/03 / £ 1,642.80

Rochdale / Friends of Rochdale Lib Dems / 23/03/04 / £ 1,487.00

Rochdale / Sir Cyril Smith / 30/10/04 / £ 2,160.00

Rochdale / Rochdale Lib Dem Council Group / 31/12/04 / £ 24,266.00

Rochdale / Rochdale Reform Buildings Ltd / 24/10/05 / £ 1,793.00

Don't think they stopped sticking money in in 2004 did they? Perhaps they just stopped bothering with the troublesome matter of declaring their donations?

* The news of Dave's sacking - with his other boss Paul Rowen MP giving him a pay rise as part compo - only comes from (fed up) Lib Dem sources so far and I've been caught out believing some of those shady characters before ... but that's the word on the streets.

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

Could you take a gander at Rowen's declared donations? And also election expenses for 2005?

Chris Paul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Hi Chris,

Your sources are incorrect as usual. I work for Paul Rowen full time and any assistance provided to the Lib Dem Group is done in my spare time which is not unusual for someone in my position.

Your source claims I have been 'sacked' - again brilliant claims from your source who is no longer a member of the Lib Dems in Rochdale.... axes to grind you see.

If you take electoral success in Rochdale - then moving the group from about early 20s and into the 30s and control of the Council for the first time ever, then retaining control then we're not doing badly.

Your very same source, I am afraid is completely incorrect but I'm loving the attention mate! Morning by the way!

Dave

Dave Hennigan said...

Bloody Hell!!!! At least I signed my name!!!! Looks like I have been SHAFted again!

DAVE HENNIGAN

Chris Paul said...

Mr Hennigan, the never anonymous poster, strikes again!

We didn't believe you on that anyway being as you are a Lib Dem and being as we have certain details of anonymous posters. So - for the avoidance of doubt - are you saying:

1. That you have never received pay from the Rochdale Lib Dem group or parts thereof?

2. That the Rochdale Lib Dem Group and the Friends of Rochdale Lib Dems have stopped contributing funds to campaigns and the like, never mind agents pay?

3. That members of the group do not regard you as an embarrassment and and did not wish to discontinue your arrangement?

4. That you actually put in full time hours on parliamentary matters rather than, as many people believe, being a full time party political attack dog for the doomed Paul Rowen?

5. There'll be four years of time sheets no doubt?

Good to hear you are enjoying the attention, as no doubt is St Cyril, because there will be more of it.

Congratulations on getting St Cyril's own interview on North West Tonight censored. That's quite an achievement that is.

Laters

Anonymous said...

Does the boy Hennighan pay rent for his lonely nights of broken sleep next to the photocopier at Fib Dem central? Someone has to pay for that one bar fire, toilet paper and cold running water.

Surely if Drake Street has been used as accommodation then Council Tax is payable?

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the new plaything, Chris. The Electoral Commission site you provided a link to is full of useful information. I didn't know if was so available or so flexible.

Here's one everybody can play. Follow Piss Crawl's link http://registers.electoralcommission.org.uk/regulatory-issues/regdpoliticalparties.cfm

Select The Labour Party from the drop down list of registered parties and type in 'Manchester' in the box below that.

Just have a look at that curious bunch of bedfellows! Would anybody like to construct a narrative that explains what is going on there?

tory boys never grow up said...

Just had a little look at the Turner and Newall (Aka Rochdale) Lib Dems accounts for 2004 and 2005 - looks like they may have been understating the rent free donation so that they didn't have to declare this to the Electoral Commission as a donation in 2004 and/or overclaiming from Parliment for Rowen's use of the said offices - amount claimed which is meant to be calculated on a market basis looks considerably greater than the rent free donation. Perhaps Hennegan may wish to explain before a compliant is sent to the Electoral Commission.

Chris Paul said...

I'd like to think that Rochdale Lib Dems have fallen back on the local tradition of allegedly suppressing information about donors, some personal some political, as practiced throughout the St Cyril Dark Ages.

We note that Agent Hennigan has not answered any of the questions put to him on his own fiscal relations past and present with the RLDG and FRLD.

Anonymous said...

Manchester Central Clp
Opal Property Group Ltd
27/02/06
£10,000.00

Manchester Central Clp
Crosby Homes Special Projects
26/04/04
£4,000.00

Manchester Central Clp
Ask Property Developments
01/06/04
£5,000.00

Manchester Local Govt Committee
Opal Property Group Ltd
25/04/08
£5,000.00

Manchester Central Clp
Stuart Wall
26/04/04
£10,000.00


This may be doing a disservice to Stuart Wall by including him on this list to Manchester Labour Party. Anybody know who he is?

Chris Paul said...

Interesting list anon. All over the place in dates I see. Brilliant.

The point about Rochdale is not who your donors are. But whether they have been listed correctly.

According to the site there have been no donations for almost four years. Yet there has been very virulent campaigning and a very virulent agent as well. Apparently paid in the past but not now.

And that because they're fed up with him. Someone very close to Emma Street told me that although Cyril loves being in the news he too has made Hennigan persona non grata at his gaffe, sorry gaff.

Anonymous said...

All over the place with dates???

Have another look.

The point about Manchester is not whether your donors have been listed correctly (although that would be interesting in itself), but why they would want to give in the first place.

Any suggestions?

Chris Grievance said...

Anyone know who Chris Grieves is? He's been donating to the RLDs for years he says down the pub with a sneer and a grin. He's very angry that his contributions have not been recorded properly.

He doesn't want to go to jail or have to go on the run like that other chap. You know the one who stole other people's money and donated it via a company that wasn't even trading in the UK?

Sadly the LDs extensive due diligence didn't turn this up when 10 minutes on Google should have given them cause for concern.

Chris Paul said...

The donations appear to be listed 2006, 2004, 2004, 2008, 2004. Which is drunk and disorderly.

Anonymous said...

Manchester Central Clp
Crosby Homes Special Projects
26/04/04
£4,000.00

Manchester Central Clp
Stuart Wall
26/04/04
£10,000.00

Manchester Central Clp
Ask Property Developments
01/06/04
£5,000.00

Manchester Central Clp
Opal Property Group Ltd
27/02/06
£10,000.00

Manchester Local Govt Committee
Opal Property Group Ltd
25/04/08
£5,000.00

Does that help?

I don't see the relevance of the dayes, anyway. It's the sources that I am enquiring about. Although I hadn't noticed the pattern of the dates until you mentioned it. Cheers.

Any thoughts now?

Chris Paul said...

Is this actually a complete list anon? Why not? And what's your point? Are these donations correctly registered? From eligible donors? Active in the UK? Wanting to avoid a crappy Lib Dem administration cf Rochdale cf Liverpool.

The real question is about the drying up of donations to Rochdale Lib Dems or at least declaration of these. And about the financing of Dave Hennigan's 24/7 political work which obviously cannot be funded by the taxpayers on any parliamentary payroll.

Don't want to see the lad getting into trouble.

Anonymous said...

You find me any constituency party in the country that has as much corporate funding as Manchester and I will take your point. Go on, I defy you to find one. And if your point was valid, all Bob the Builders would be queuing up to donate monies to Liverpool and Rochdale. They haven't.

You ask if is a complete list of donors. How the hell should I know? But you wnat to know about donations that 'haven't' been given to Rochdale.

Let's just deal with the real matter and what does exist rather than on the search for what does not exist - on today all all days.

What is your explanation for the list of donors to Manchester Labour Party?

I was your original post that put me on to all this. Pleae accept my sincere thanks.

tory boys never grow up said...

You can always tell when the Rochdale Lib Dems don't want to ask the question raised about them - they resort to personal attacks or they try and turn the question around 180 degrees.

Can I suggest that if they want to ask questions about donations to Manchester Central CLP they go ahead and ask them rather than ask Chris who doesnt represent them - you are big boys and should know how do these things for yourselves. In the meantime answers are still awaited to various questions asked to the Rochdale Lib Dems - the answers to which continue to be conspicuosly absent.

Anonymous said...

And I don't represent Rochdale Lib Dems, or anybody for that matter. Neither does Chris Paul. And on that basis nobody would be able to as him anything. Which might be the sensible as he never answers a question.

But your point about Manchester Central is well taken, Tory Boy. I had simply serached for 'Manchester'. In all the acuttin' and 'apstin' I hadnit noticed that all these 'donations' are indeed to Manchester Central CLP. The plot thickens.

I will give Piss Crawl the benefit of the doubt and accept that his point about the donations was not fatuous. Yeah, right>

Anyway he claimed they were given because these companies did not want to "avoid a crappy Lib Dem administration cf Rochdale cf Liverpool."

Ignoring the mistaken use of "cf", his point would only be valid if the following were true:

* There were huge donations to the Labour Party in other boroughs where the Lib Dems are in contention.

* Such donations came from across the business spectrum and not just from property developers.

Any other tips so that we can get nearer the truth?

Anonymous said...

Anon,

I totally agree with you. These donations to Manchester Central CLP need to be looked at in further detail.

Could it be that some of this money is being filtered out to other Labour Groups across Greater Manchester?

It really wouldn’t surprise me if that’s what the war mongering murders were up to.

Anonymous said...

Cheers

And it gets weirder.

Before I go into that, can anybody put in order the Manchester constituencies by the number of marginal Labour?Lib Dems wards they have in them and by marginality at the General Election

Anonymous said...

After trawling through the Hennighan chaff, what about the original point?

Rochdale Lib Dems, councillors chip-in to pay into some obscure pot that hasn't been accounted for in over 3 years.

How does Dave Hennighan get paid?

Friends of Rochdale Lib Dems. A fundraising body? Based in Emma Street? Sir Cyril Smith's house?

Cash and cheques go to Cyril and come out the other side as a big cheque to Rochdale Lib Dems?

Who has given Cyril cash and cheques?

Names, amounts and dates?

If this is not forthcoming then isn't that money laundering?

Isn't money laundering a crime?

Chris Paul said...

It's irrelevant but ....

As far as I know the money donated to the Manchester Accounting Unit was received on behalf of FIVE constituencies viz Wythenshawe and Sale East, Man Withington, Man Gorton, Man Central, Man Blackley.

As far as I know the donations have been mischieviously referred for scrutiny to the Standards Board for England over scurrilous accusations that there was some problem with them. Including horrendous personal smears and ridiculousness from Simple Simon Ashley.

The Lib Dems making the mischief were told that the donations were completely in order and properly recorded. They threw their toys of course.

Which brings us back to the question of donations to the Rochdale Accounting Unit of the Libdemologists. No donations from the Group or from the Friends since 2004 have been recorded.

Have there been no significant donations in that time? Or are the asbestos clowns and spanking boys from the Rochdale Lib Dems flouting the rules?

Clearly anon the person who posted the list of Mcr donors - Five - since 2004 has not included a full list but simply a couple of local companies that they wish to highlight.

Looking at Rochdale's extraordinary mess with Wilson Bowden / Barrett Homes tasked to ruin the town centre redevelopment despite all sorts of evidence that they were incapable of timely delivery and teetering on the edge of bankruptcy ... one has to question what was going on.

What has been going on in Rochdale? Turner Brothers run everything for decades? And now it is a series of failing development companies? And the ruling group cannot attract a single donation that needs reporting for the best part of four years?

Anonymous said...

Correct, Chris. There are indeed five Accounting Units (ie constituencies) in Manchester. It’s four and a half really as part of Wythenshawe and Sale East is in the borough of Trafford. But let’s assume for the ease of argument that all money donated to that seat was spent within the city boundaries.

Here’s the maths:

As far as I can tell, Manchester Blackley has received £4,000 in donations, Withington £5,000, Wythenshawe & Sale East %5,750 and Manchester Central £6,000. Manchester Gorton seems to have been left out. All these have been from various union bodies.

Now that’s not in reverse order to what you’d expect in terms of where Labour needs to spend money, but it doesn’t seem far off it. Having had a look at the figures, I’d have put Withington and Gorton at the top of the list, Blackley & Wythenshawe at the bottom. And yet Central get more union donations than anybody. It could be that they were all acting independently with no overall strategy, but I find that hard to believe.

There has been one donation from the Co-op. It went to Manchester Central. There has also been one individual donation – again to Central. That one donor gave £10,000 – in one single amount almost half of what the unions have given in several years to all thee seats in Manchester.

I have since found out that he is a senior member of a property firm.

Which brings us on to the company donations (several tens of thousands of pounds worth). All to Manchester Central and all from property developers.

Even if that was seen in the best possible light – random acts of kindness from various unions, individuals and companies that virtually all seemed to end up in the same bucket – it would not explain the most curious aspect.

The Labour Group in Manchester made nine separate donations totalling £33,000. They must have been at the head of the queue of those wanting to keep the pesky Lib Dems out and therefore needing to allocate this money to best effect. So what do they do with it? They gave it all to Manchester Central.

What is supposed to be one of the safest Labour seats in the country gets over 75% of all the money donated to any Labour Party in the city. What sense does that make? One of your munchkins has siad that money laundering is a crime, would (s)he like to comment on this.

I repeat my challenge. If this money really was to fend off the Lib Dems, as you claim, then where else in the country did this happen and why just from property developers?

I’m not particularly interested in the legalistic point of whether this was correctly registered. The point is about where it came from, why it came and where it went.

Chris Paul said...

The LGC (i.e the four and a half constituencies in the city of Manchester) was not a recognised accounting unit - as I understand things anyway - and the money therefore had to be channelled through an accounting unit that was recognised by the EC. Central, being probably the best run CLP, took care of the business.

As I've said before these transactions have been referred to the Standards Body by mischievious Lib Dems and they've been found to be absolutely 100% OK.

Are there donations to Rochdale Lib Dems that have not been declared properly? that is the question.

Anonymous said...

Who is paying for that slag Hennigan to tell his fucking lies and doing his smearing and bullying? That cannot be the taxpayer surely?

Private Deeplish said...

OMG, let's hope CP doesn't use this as an excuse to tackle the Withington "donations" and the Withington "election expenses".

Why couldn't you fuckwit Rochdale inbreds simply deny everything and shut up? We're doomed I tell you we're doomed.

Anonymous said...

Oh dear, oh dear. What a mess.

Word in the pub is that ordinary decent councillors in Rochdale are getting sick and tired of Dave Shenanibum, his nasty tactics and all the attention he is attracting.

He has crossed the line but won't listen.

When you're in a hole stop digging. But oh no, Dave H gets a JCB out and starts digging and throwing dirt like a man possessed.

Some are very angry about how Sir Cyril has been used by Dave as both a battering ram and a shield. They knew that some things were lurking back in history and didn't want it stirring up.

Then comes Dave from Levenshulme with his camera, magic photocopier (than runs for free) and DeLorean time machine.

Although he was a Stockport lad, he's in the office late and night, he's still there in the morning. A bit whiffy, red eyes and ranting on the phone at 100mph.

They don't like how bossy he is. They know he thinks they are stupid. They don't like him but keep quiet for the sake of Paul.

But if it comes to perjury regarding dark allegations of sex abuse plus undeclared party political donations from local property developers who have a remarkable success rate with planning approvals. Well that is a different matter. Ordinary decent people can only be pushed so far Dave.

Dave, they don't want a criminal record for the sake of a bottle of sherry and £500. Being a councillor is the be all and end all. Family life and a clear conscience means a lot to them. They will not go down for this.

They know the names of the Rochdale property developers who have done very well out of all this. They feel very uncomfortable about it all. Dave, not everyone is as thick skinned as you and Cyril.

Undeclared donations from property developers who have done well with former Rochdale Council assets and still getting very dodgy planning permissions through? Very, very wrong.

And 'your' councillors are supposed to keep quiet are they Dave?

You are right about one thing though Dave. This isn't the best place to raise these well founded claims. Like the sexual abuse allegations about Cyril, this is a matter for Greater Manchester Police.

Anonymous said...

Yowzer. 11 September. Anon 9:11 hits the twin towers of Rochdale Libdemmery head on.

Anonymous said...

"What is supposed to be one of the safest Labour seats in the country gets over 75% of all the money donated to any Labour Party in the city. What sense does that make? One of your munchkins has siad that money laundering is a crime, would (s)he like to comment on this."

Perhaps it has something to do with CLP sponsored events held at National Party Conferences in Manachester.

Chris Paul said...

What are you on about anon 9:50?

1. These donations were received on behalf of the five constituencies fully or partly in the City of Manchester by one of the accounting units.

2. Such donations have been scrutinised by the EC and the Standards Board and found to be fine and dandy.

3. CLP sponsored events at Conference? You mean dinner with Neil Kinnock 2006 and dinner with Davis Miliband this year? What is your point?? Should there be a law against fundraising dinners??

4. How about almost four years of no donations declared in the Lib Dem Rochdale AU when councillors are being asked to pay into the pot? Has someone messed up? Is there a cover up?

Anonymous said...

Dave Hennigan is paid out of Paul Rowen's parliamentary expenses.

Anonymous said...

"the money therefore had to be channelled through an accounting unit that was recognised by the EC. Central, being probably the best run CLP, took care of the business."

@Took care of the business' - what an disturbingturn of phrase.

And 'channelled' - it would be interesting to look that up in a Thesaurus!

The major point remains. Your claim is that these people gave money out of the goodness of their hearts and to ensure that the Lib Dems were kept away from the corridors of power.

Why does this fear only extend to property developers? Could it be that it isn't the Lib Dems taking control they fear but Labour losing control? It just seems very odd that this panic spreads like wildfire through the real estate sector and then stops dead.

If this was any other party than Labour, can you honestly say that you wouldn't be raising exactly these questions?

I didn't know about the Electotral Commission database until you linked to it. I hadn't spotted the synchronicity in some of the dates until you brought my attention to it. And I stupidly hadn't noticed the Manchester Central CLP laundry until one of your munchkins brought it up. I'm stuck about where to look next. Any hints?

Anonymous said...

try the old toffee tin under a bed at Emma Street.

That's if you can stand the stench of dried piss.

And don't look in the closet. Its full of skeletons...

Chris Paul said...

You didn't know about the Electoral Commission website anon 10:19? You're joking right? Ha ha ha ha ha.

Why don't you talk to the Electoral Commission before you make any other silly comment or at least read up on the rules. Make a complaint perhaps? Or involve the Standards Board? Oh, your friends have done already and they lost? Oh dear. Bad losers or what.

And why don't you concentrate on the Rochdale fine mess instead of lobbing bricks at some proper declaration of donations elsewhere?

Personally I'd prefer all parties were funded by membership, jumble sales, small donations from individuals and organisations, union affiliations, events and so on. But rules is rules. Procedures are procedures. Manchester Labour seem to be following them, but are Rochdale Lib Dems?

That's the issue.

Anonymous said...

I did know about the Electoral Commission website, I merely said that I didn’t realise just how flexible their database of donations was.

Incredibly flexible, in fact. So, instead of walking the dog I have this morning discovered the following by searching for company donations to Constituency Labour Parties:

Firstly, I removed all those donations that seem to have been made internally. For example, the Co-operative movement make many and widespread contributions to CLPs and branches. Fair enough. A similar example is a Labour club in Weymouth that regularly donates to South Dorset CLP – a process that is repeated elsewhere in the country. No problem with that.

There are 646 seats in the UK, so you would expect each to get about 0.15% of all money donated. Even if you accept your ‘explanation’ that Manchester Central CLP is the bagman for the rest of the city, that still means that the figure rises to only two thirds of one per cent.

The actual figure is nearly 9%. Yes, one pound in every eleven that commercial companies donate to CLPs throughout the country goes into the coffers of Manchester Central. And every penny of it from property developers. I take it that your reference to ‘lobbing bricks’ was intended as irony – or should that have been ‘lobbing pre-cast reinforced concrete’?

Chris Paul said...

Seems unlikely you didn't know about the EC database too anon to be blunt.

It is constantly being referred to by blogs and newspapers and so on.

But if you say so then it must be true 'cos "anon" is such a reliable and accountable brand after all; and what's more though you are indeed very confident in making your points you are also barking up the wrong trees.

I don't see why you'd expect donations to local parties to be spread evenly across the country. Utter rubbish. They and indeed other fundraising would tend to be where there's a fight on in the local government sphere as for example Manchester Labour are determined to keep Lib Dem and Tory delusions under control, and/or in a key constituency battle. For example losing Manchester Withington in a surprise defeat.

I'd expect them to be fairly low in the safest seats and the hopeless seats and concentrated in urban centres where there are council battles and HoP seats are most in play.

If you are indeed an ingenue as you claim - and you well may be - you may not realise that there is another database of registered donees at the EC. Take a look. Seems as if most MPs are listed there but that the Lib Dems we're interested in like Rowen, Leech, Hunter and so on seem to have boycotted the thing and are absent.

This is where MPs record donations they receive from unions, individuals, companies, and is also the second place they should record travel, hospitality etc as well as on their register of members interests.

Here. Some Lib Dems are there ... but certainly not Mr Rowen.

Perhaps you could take a run through the Labour MPs there and tot up the true level of business donations which are probably more generally arriving by way of MPs. And perhaps take a look at regional offices and HQ too as these clearly handle some donations too.

You might also consider the combination of the the Congleton constituency of George Osborne with it's rather substantial turnover and also the office of George Osborne with its rather substantial turnover and then you might realise that GOO alone has substantially more money donated to him IN A YEAR than all the Labour CLPs have received from business in the past seven years.

Interesting huh?

As to lobbing bricks, shucks. But do watch this space as the glass houses and illusions of the Rochdale libdemologists start to shatter. The smart money is on Rochdale developers NOT declaring donations being more of an issue than Manchester developers who do.

After all while your filthy innuendo has been looked at following unsubstantiated whingeing from Manchester Lib Dems - who have incidentally largely ignored reporting rules as it suits them and by the look of it been up to all sorts - and all was well with the world. No problem. legal, decent and honest.

Dave Hennigan said...

Beautiful rant Chris, I can't speak for Rochdale Lib Dems on Finance issues as I am not the Treasurer.

This thread seems to be very popular and is probably three or four lonely hearts chewing the fat.

People are asking how I get paid? Through the bank like most other people. I work for the Lib Dem Council Group in an advisory role and have to say that I am extremely popular. Yes, many of us don't always agree but that's politics. I appreciate that one of our members is making all sorts of allegations against me that are not true but thank you Chris for putting the record straight about fingers burnt from the same 'source'.

This very same source would be the very same person who also revealed to my snouts that we were losing in May in both the Postal Vote and the elections as a whole. Result? We won 10 out of the 11 seats, turning round losses in previous years in 2 wards.

Labour threw the kitchen sink at us but their efforts went down the drain with the dishwater!

By the way sorry for involving your wife - I am sure she is knowhere near as crackers as you!

Anonymous said...

I would accept your 'explanation' that Labour donations should not be evenly distributed across the country? That would make perfect sense. But Manchester appears to be the sole example.

Where are the large commercial donations in places like Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, St Helens, Blackburn and so on and so on?

Why only Manchester and why only from property developers? That's a question, not an accusation. I'm intrigued.

Dave Hennigan said...

Just spoken to our Council Leader and told him about me being 'sacked' - he just laughed and said is 'that from the mentally disturbed bloke in Manchester that Richard Leese has disowned?" I said, "...it has been alledged that he's mentally disturbed but him and and wife are probably not crackers. I can't comment on the latter apart from confirming it!"

Anonymous said...

Anon 19.16,

You are right to question Piss Crawls pathetic explanation for donations made to Central Manchester.

Have you managed to have a look at the people behind these property developers?

Anonymous said...

“Have you managed to have a look at the people behind these property developers?”

No. Do you mean the people that run the companies or are there people behind them? Any pointers gratefully accepted.

But Piss Crawl’s earlier little clue has been incredibly useful. You know, the one about the dates of these donations.

Most of them were around the times of the 2004 and 2006 local elections. Search the web for the results of these to see which wards were marginal and you find that a certain Christopher Paul was a Labour candidate in City Centre ward in both years.

Without even checking, I am going to take a flying leap in the dark and guess that City Centre ward is in Manchester Central constituency – the very seat that was the recipient of all that corporate largesse.

Unless Labour did unexpectedly badly under Piss Crawl’s candidature, I would also guess that City Centre was regarded by both the Labour Party and the Lib Dems as marginal – again, just the sort of place that should have benefited from extra resources if the ‘explanation’ we’ve had is right. You know, the one about it being to fend off the Liberal Democrats.

So, presumably, a candidate in such a seat would have been offered extra finance from this new revenue stream.

From reading your blog I understand that there is only one thing more important to you in politics than sticking it up the Lib Dems, and that’s your hard-earned and highly coveted integrity. So when you say that you disapprove of such fund-raising, that must mean that you would have refused the offer and relied instead on (as you put it) jumble sales.

But just to put everybody’s mind at rest, can you confirm that none of your election expenses in 2004 and 2006 were paid out of the slop bucket that was Manchester Central CLP.

Please, Chris, say it ain’t so.

Anonymous said...

Anon 22:19,

I doth my cap sir!

I look forward to Piss Crawl's response.

What I meant about the 'men behind the scenes' was it would be interesting to see if any of the people who run/ran or are employed/were employed by these property developers are involved within the Labour Party now?

Maybe some are Labour Candidates at the next general for example?

Chris Paul said...

Hennigan : stop your personal twaddle or else you'll get like for like back. You may get it back anyway as it's hard to sympathise with someone however wretched who behaves like such a complete twat 24/7.

And what's more you are not answering the questions. You say you don't currently get paid by the Lib Dems and you try to conflate that with EVER. You do not comment on the past. You used to get paid. Now you don't. You've been sacked. But your friends are too two-faced to tell you to either of your faces.

There used to be regular donations in Rochdale. Now none are declared.

Anons all: Very shoddy analysis. Although we actually got close in 2004 the city centre was 32nd out of 32 on our winnability list and we got neither much cash nor much support from outside the ward.

But yes we got some modest cash from the CLP and the Co-op and the like. If you go to room 114 (?) in the Town Hall you can check our election returns of course. Unlike say Leech's 2005 fiction these are legal, decent and honest.

One of our CC candidates in 2004 died tragically young between original selection and the election. So it was not ideal.

In 2006 I worked the ward almost alone. Delivering 2500 day of poll leaflets on my own. In both cases we were able to take lots of seats elsewhere as a result of selfless team players working hard where we were unlikely to get much return.

The Lib Dems have these too of course, but you'll not find us disparaging these or our own candidates as "losers" etc though this is something Ashley, Hennigan and so on are very keen on doing. Hateful, ignorant and disrespectful.

There are people from all walks of life in the Labour Party naturally. I'm not aware though of anyone who is a candidate at the GE or likely to be at the next LE for that matter who works for a developer.

Unless someone's retiring unexpectedly our candidates are four sitting MPs and Lucy Powell.

But then as Dave points out Labour wouldn't tell me anyway. They prefer to shoot the breeze with the ever popular Shenanigan. Diamond geezer and all that. Ho ho. He'll let you know no doubt when he finds out.

Anonymous said...

He's not worth it Chris. He's a loser.

Anonymous said...

Interesting, cos similar allegations are emerging about Lib Democrap funding in Cardiff.

Copies of delivery notes for paper and ink into their HQ in City Road Cardiff will be very welcome.

Cos that is paid for as a joint MP/AM's office. They have two RISOGRAPHs there.

Are these machines paid for by the public ?

I think we should be told !

ANON

Anonymous said...

You explain how you were funded in 2004 and that you were 32nd out of 32 in terms of winnability. Now why do I find that hard to believe?

Are you tellimg us all that your ward (Lib Dem majority the previous year of roughly 10%)was either considered less winnable than, say, Rusholme (Lib Dem lead nearly 40%) or more losable than Blackley (Labour lead 77%). All based on the old wards - I assume that's why there were all out elections in 2003.

Are you saying that the Labour Party that year thought there was more chance of losing Blackley ward that there was of recapturing City Centre? They really didn't have any faith in you, did they.

In other words, that's complete bollocks and makes no sense whatsoever.

But presumably, due to your sterling efforts in 2004, by 2006 you had risen up the ranks to deserve some extra resources. You make no reference to how your 2006 campaign was funded. Omission or evasion?

So here's a simple question. In order not to be tainted by all those corporate donations, was your campign in 2005 totally self-funded or did you take money from Manchester Central CLP.

You say that in 2004 you had money from the Co-op. There is no mention of that on the Electoral Commission database or in their statement of accounts.

Chris Paul said...

£50 from the Co-op in 2004 and £150 in 2006. You do know (a) the level of contribution that is to be declared? and (b) the spending limit in local government elections?

You are utterly wrong. Over and over again. The redrawn city centre ward lost almost all the social housing immediately north of the inner ring road. As it turns out the Lib Dems, who actually had a majority of 210 or thereabouts IIRC and on a tiny turnout, were surprisingly strong on those estates.

Of course City Centre went up the list following our success - achieved despite some truly awful name calling tactics among the LDs - and we stayed in touch and ahead of the Tories so that this year we could have more of a push.

Chris Paul said...

PS There was no local government election in 2005. In 2006 there were as I recall funds from co-op party and local LP units.

All legal and above board. But what was happening in Rochdale that is the question?

Dave Hennigan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Chris Paul said...

I am sorry Dave Hennigan you are a foul and odious creature whose bullying, smearing and dishonest behaviour brings shame on your family, your party and any real friends you may have who do not disown your reckless nastiness.

I cannot and will not tolerate your stupidity on this. I will be referring this matter in due course to your employer, your party leadership and wherever else life takes me.

I suggest that you apologise unreservedly for your crass behaviour and that you reflect on that behaviour and cease and desist.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for further link to the Electoral Commission. Hsve spent the past few minutes scanning through it.

Remind me agaian of what I'm supposed to be looking for. Oh yes, that's right. you wanted me to serach for something that isn't there.

Guess what. You're right. There are million of things that aren't there. Can I stop now? It's just difficult to know when to stop looking for things that don't exist.

I also had a quick look on the web for a complete list of things that don't exist. You won't believe this, but there isn't one!

So then i went to www.spuriousbollocks.com, but that just redirected me to your site.

So I got really desperate and decided to have a look at that compndium of everything that is wrong - Wikipedia. It wasn't i=on that site either.

Strangely enough though, the Wikipedia explanation of the Barnett Formula is remarakably similar to your own. Are they in any way related?

So it seems that you are totally right. You have accused various local MPs (mostly Lib Dems) of not accepting donations from large corporations and indeed they haven't. What a scandal! They should be hauled in front of Chris Paul as judge and jury and made to account for themselves in not taking this dosh.

By the way, George Osbourne is the MP for Tatton, not Cengleton.
Now that you have admitted that your election campaigns were financed by property speculators' money that had been laundered through the local labour Party, I'm sure the name 'Tatton' will come flooding back to you.

Chris Paul said...

Did I say Congleton? So sorry. And did I waste some of your time? My pleasure.

Anonymous said...

Think nought of it, Chris.

In fact, it was not a waste of time at all. While searching for things that weren’t there I came across a couple of things that were. What is it with property developers and the Labour Party? More of that anon. You'll keep!

Then last night I was having a meal with, among others, a couple of people who are or have been heavily involved in the Labour Party in Manchester. I tried raising the issue of this dosh but they were very sheepish about the subject and constantly changed it to something ‘”more relevant”. Pretty soon we were discussing drug rationing in the NHS and I said that surely they must have had times in their own situations were they have had to allocate finite resources.

When they asked for an example, I enquired as to how they decided to spend their resources at election time. “It must be really difficult to rank every ward in Manchester from 1 to 32 in order of marginality,” said I.

“Why would we do that, anyway,” was the immediate reply. “That would be an exercise for the nerds.”

So when I asked them what they did do, I was told that wards were grouped into categories – those that they wouldn’t expect to lose; those they didn’t hope to win; seats they hoped to gain from the opposition, and; defended seats that they feared could be lost. Occasionally there would be ‘development seats’ – those which couldn’t be won this year but might be the following year with some seedcorn money.

“But if you were to make a complete list, what would be at the top and bottom,” I cheekily enquired.

They rattled of a list of safe Labour seats that shouldn’t be lost – mostly in an arc around the northern end of the city if my skimpy geography of Manchester is correct: Crumpsall; Harpurey; Blackley; Charlestown ….

They were less happy about coming forward with those they couldn’t win, but we managed to drag Levenshulme, Withington and one of the Didsburys out of them.

“Shouldn’t City Centre ward be bottom of the list,” I added (and tried to put on a knowing air).

It didn’t work because they laughed in my face. Little did they know why I was really asking, thought I.

“We poured a bloody fortune down that particular black-hole,” I was informed.

So here’s a quick précis:

* City Centre ward was not bottom of the list in terms of winnability (there was no such list)
* Indeed, it was much further up the pecking order than that
* As such, it did have a lot of money allocated to it from central funds
* In the years that you fought the local elections, Manchester Labour Party was awash with money
* Most of that money came from property developers

To précis the précis
The bald fact is that your own campaigns were mostly funded by property speculation. That is unless you tell us that you were offered this money but turned it down, preferring instead to rely on whist drives and race nights.


The conversation ended when one of them said, “Mind you, maybe we pulled the money out of City Centre ward to make sure we didn’t win. We should have bunged the Lib Dems a few bob.”

What can they have meant by that?

Anonymous said...

What's wrong, Chris? Cat got your typing finger?