Posts
Manchester Withington Selection: The Phoney War
Clearly your Manchester Withington blogger LoL has been to the Didsbury Social tonight. And spoken with Dr Jane, Casra, Naheed, Jenny, Nargis, and Yogesh. Lucy was certainly there too, but did not speak to me. I did not see Sandra or the other Jane.
I did however get a hell of a rocket from someone pretending to be neutral who was clearly very partisan indeed. They accused me of putting up unfair photos on my blog. It turned out they were referring to a Flickr set of eight candidates posted by Lorenzo23 which I had linked to.
They would not reveal which candidates they believed were prejudiced by this link. The photo of their favoured one there was actually most excellent, was posted first, and arguably way better than the rest. I was pretty upset that this very belligerent and exceedingly patronising person didn't comprehend the difference between putting something on the web and linking with something that is on the web.
I have now checked the Flickr site. Way after I made the link two extra pictures have appeared. These are perhaps less flattering to the two candidates involved. These being the two leading candidates I'd probably call that quits. Though perhaps Lorenzo23 would kindly revert to the original eight pictures?
The social was a bit strange I thought. A DJ was performing throughout, when what we wanted was a quiet chat with the candidates and there was certainly no-one dancing. And just before we left, along with a couple of candidates, it felt just like there was going to be a "lock in" and a bit of a rally for the favoured candidate who, along with the locals, remained. All a bit of an odd situation.
45 comments:
Oh dear, a few innocent pictures of wannabe politicians gets the wrath of someone who likes keeping matters behind closed doors. It's not a beauty pageant. They should credit party members with the intelligence to choose wisely and not based on a photo of someone who looked a bit tired after working all day.
As I repeatedly say "in the digital age we can all be reporters, and do a better job than the traditional media." This blog is proof of that point.
I thought the social was excellent. Though I didn't know that many people there everyone was fairly sociable. The parliamentary candidates are excellent and not just the frontrunners. Also I can assure you there was no lock in as I would have been even more drunk if that was the case!!!
Mmmm. Lorenzo23. All this may be a most excellent situationist manifesto of yours. However it is a little rough to get an earful over some sneaky flickr merchant who gets a link with one set of pictures. And then quietly throws in a couple of googlies.
These are the underhand tactics of the pornographer and the viagra merchant. A couple of years ago I was on the website of a leading national youth organisation when I discovered that one of their links had been subverted in just that kind of way. Not good.
There is the selection and then there is the election and as previous requests here I do think that sequence should be borne in mind by all snappers and scribblers in this new digital democracy.
Hi Adele Well done for being up before 2pm. Now you're going to tell me how many leaflets you delivered in Whalley Range and how many candidates weren't there?
Anyway, I didn't think there would be a lock in. I just thought it felt a bit like that used to feel before 24/7 drinking.
I've been up the devil's own highway, the A666 and may blog that later. Or not. We'll see.
Best w Chris P
Bit harsh that Chris. I've been called somethings in my time but never with viagra in the same sentence. You should have seen the unflattering pictures that went to trash - they would cause a real uproar.
Don't forget comrades.
The Chorlton and Old Moat nomination meetings are tomorrow evening (Monday Feb 12).
At last a chance for all the disillusioned socialists to have a say and send a message to the war-mongering Blairites.
You'll never forgive yourselves if you stay at home to watch the Street and let the careerists in.
Although I've heard Jenny Lennox stating her anti-war view in the pre-hustings hustings and seen Nargis Khan privately and confirmed her anti-war stance, in both cases backed by action in 2002 and 2003, I've not heard or read any other candidate expressing their credentials on this.
Has anyone else discovered any secret anti-war activists? Although the General Election may be a couple of years off and the war may be less painful this will still be an issue one way or another.
Well done Lorenzo23, for putting some pictures in the trash. That's good. How about the argument that every candidate should enjoy one picture on the Lorenzo23 Flickr, to be fair, and that the first eight pictures would suffice. With the Red Flag singing and secret party agendas making ten.
Is that any more persuasive? The other two become supernumery.
Anti-war in Chorlton: I reckon Dr Jane Evans may be another anti-war candidate as she gave me Kelvin Hopkins MP as a reference and he was and is staunchly anti-war. Her specialty though is animal welfare.
So, you're a pornographer Lorenzo23?
Er, I delivered many leaflets in Whalley Range. I think me and Mike J were given quite a long round. Didn't see any of the parliamentary candidates, though the ward is in Gorton not Withington.
no prospective ppc's in wr this am but nargis spotted in gorton north two weeks back.
Very persuasive Chris, you're like a terrier snapping at ankles. It's done, we're at ten.
Anonymous you are such a rubbish Nargis stooge!
If you bothered to check you would have discovered that Casra was at the Whalley Range leafleting this morning.
Jenny sent apologies and at least one of her team.
Of course Jenny was out in Gorton during the recent by-election, she delivered Christmas cards in Whalley Range in December, she's done anti-BNP leafleting in Newton Heath and Burlney, and she's done pretty much every Whalley Range session for the past three years!
That is true, Jenny was out in Gorton South. In fact just about the whole labour group was out in Gorton South. It was a fantastic display of Manchester Labour united. Thats what will be needed as soon as the candidate is selected in Withington.
Hazel Blears was out in Gorton South!
Let's select her.
She can go head to head with Leechy on the NHS!
Thanks to Lorenzo23 for helping out with the pacifying. Love them little terriers but lurchers (snapping at throats) are the business.
Thanks to "Jenny's Transparent Stooge" or whatever it was - this time - for putting an alleged Nargis Stooge right - in fact two of them as Adele, who has met most of the nominees and gave the same info FIRST.
Jenny and Nargis are not in the same division in the first phase of nominations and I would in any case suggest that J's people cease and desist from name calling.
Apologies to Casra Khan on behalf of this little community of 'seekers'.
Although Adele isn't in the selectorate she is EVERYWHERE and it is worth checking in with her wherever you go canvassing.
Why pop at "J's people" for pointing out that N's person was telling lies (or was too daft to have checked)?
Strange logic.
Especially as the so-called J's person was in fact doing C a favour.
To be fair to Adele she was not definite about no candidates.
And - unlike alomost everybody else - she was out in Burnage AND Whalley Range.
Vote Adele.
Dear "keeping up with the Khans",
Top marks for spotting that Casra was out in WR this morning though not noticeably in Burnage yesterday. I apologise for the error. It was crap information and I should have checked it out.
However, definitely bottom marks for not knowing the difference between Gorton South which was a by-election where everone was out (as pointed out by everyone), and Gorton North which is an important ward, shall we shall say, this time round.
Also Jenny couldn't be there (in WR, which as someone has pointed out is not in the same constituency) so she sent " one of her team" . She has a team!! Tell me is "keeping up the the Khans" one of the team?
Leafletting by proxy. Is this the way to beat Leech and secure Withington for Labour.
All I said was that Nargis has been active in several wards of the city. Why this should bring down the wrath of Jenny's "team" I have to say is baffling and depressing.
Also thank you for pointing out that she has been leafletting in Whalley Range for the last three years. Why might that be then?
I think we should stop these silly childish point scoring posts.
Jenny is a worthy candidate. She is working hard and all credit to her. But so is Nargis and so lets have a bit less uncomradely sniping and a bit more open comradely debate.
The Cockneys are rattled!
Talking to revellers at the Didsbury social - still not clear why Withington lost to Libs - no consensus about the losers campaign stratetgy / the war / selective education / failure of Labour to 'make a difference'.
Conseusus around the views that Libs lied effectively on Christie hospital. Could this be translated as this as 'public don't believe us on the NHS'?
Chosen candidate will lose againif they try to lie better than the Libs. I will be backing the candidate who can win back support from ex- Labour voters - the candidate who can demonstrate to voters in Withington consituency that a vote for Labour is a vote for prosperity for workers in this city. Candiates who think the Blair agenda is relevant in Manchester are allowing the Libs to take over our city.
Learn from the local government elections where politics won over 'spin'. Well done Mike Amesbury in Fallowfield - local candidate, local issus, Labour poltiics = winning formula.
Labour Rosie
Er, thanks everyone, I think.
But I must come off the fence as Chorlton BLP nears the nomination meeting. A very comprehensive leaflet from one of the candidates arrives this morning.
I actually like the punchy ones from another candidate much better, but of its type this was pretty good and worthy.
Substituting Keith Bradley or any of the other eight candidates into the nine pictures - dancing cheek to cheek with Kinnock Keith, how's that? - would have had the same sort of effect.
To my eyes this was Candidate 101 from Labour Central Office. Substituting John Leech would have been Focus 101 - which is not necessarily a criticism but it is the case.
Issue by issue:
Better services and support for the elderly:
Hurrah! Who wouldn't support that? OK, but what is the candidates view on the timing of the restoration of the earnings link which conference voted for in 2000 (with speeches from Manchester Labour and Barbara Castle) and in 2005. Is 2010 or whatever good enough?
More opportunities for young people:
Genius! What is the candidate's view on Higher Education funding and Top Up Fees. Personally I can stand a good socialist/social democrat DEFENCE of Top Up Fees (cf David Chaytor) but I cannot stand no information or no opinion on the subject.
Creating and Supporting Jobs
A triumph! Manchester Labour is very good at this. The Lib Dems slag off everything in this area. they are anti investment and change in Manchester. So this is a good area for us. Whichever candidate ir is. But I continue to get a wrenching feeling in my gut at some of the "local" claims.
Excellent Education for All
Splendid! Who would vote against that. What ARE the policies needed in this city? Manchester Labour have successfully SUBVERTED the Academies programme and could have drafted it more usefully than that young never elected and unaccountable Tory Lord Adonis in the first place. What policies? What does the candidate think about selection? Faith schools? Single-sex? The Clown Prince Adonis?
First Class Health Services
Splendid! Generic! But dentists? GPs? Maternity beds? Hazel Blears? Hard decisions? Even moving Christie one day for the benefit if regional patients? What does the candidate think about any of this?
Environment and Transport
Hurrah! Generic! Why has there been such a delay in Metro? What is this congestion link all about? What is the candidates view on congestion charging? Parking fees? Passenger transport? "Investment in .. increasing traffic" what is THAT all about?
Elephants in the Living Room
Foreign Policy: what are now the candidates' views on Iraq? What was the view in February 2003? In 2002? On 12 September 2001?
Immigration Policy?
War on Terror?
Local Government Finance?
Super Casino?
Housing Options?
As for the five reasons to vote fro this candidate. Four are different ways of saying the same thing and are frankly a bit shaky. The fifth too is frankly a bit shaky.
Come on candidates! Let's have the hearts and souls, the views and the personal ideas? NOT Labour Central 101. That's been tried here.
I will stick this up on the face of the blog in an hour or two. Please hone your comments for this afternoon. Thanks.
Nargis's people - hopeless tricksters. Too thick.
Jenny's people - cheeky minxes. Too clever.
Lucy's people - lucky losers. Too slick.
I'd just like to mention that Chris is being satirical with his comments about me. I really have nothing to do with this selection. I just want to win for labour in Manchester. Good luck everyone and I look forward to working with lots of you.
Adele x
I'm backing the candidate who has:
a. Delivered leaflets in Withington Constituency for the last 3-4 weeks to show their undoubted commitment.
b. Followed the League of Gentleman 'Are You Local' formula.
c. Is signed up to the belief that blogging/talking to the same 5/6 people is by far the best resource ever.
d. Had a few pints with the right people.
Like the majority of you, I won't be considering who would appeal best to the 40000 voters in this area, who communicates best (oran and written form) and who has been the most genuine with their statements.
The gulf between reality and assertion/spin is painfully apparent. Keep up the good work.
Here's some serious positive campaigning.
Jenny Lennox was the NUJ orgsaniser who helped editorial workers at AOL in London win union recognition.
This is believed to be the only time in the WORLD that a trade union has won recognition at AOL/Time Warner.
The link above goes to the ruling of the Central Arbitration Committee.
Here is a link to a story about the victory: http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/story1387.shtml
Great blog Chris. Keep it up :0)
Perhaps to be fair to all candidates you should arrange an online debate with a moderator so people can ask the questions that are important to them........
We seem a bit behind on our methods of selection and the procedures we uses to engage with members. Withington could lead the way with the first online selection debate :0)
Chris. Can you ask outside opinion to oderate his/her language. Describing people as "thick" and "losers" is not the kind of debate we should be having here.
Sensitive soul: you have already asked and here in digi-democracy that's good enough. But I shall reinforce your POV:
Outside opinion: Is that you Dave? Dave in Rochdale? Please "oderate" your language. It is currently too odourous for the sensitive souls who read avidly and now write sparingly here.
Everybody: I have placed the post about the quality of the policy discussion as epitomised by a recent leaflet on the face of this blog. Top story for the moment so here. It will go in the Withington Menu when superceded.
Suzanne: Great idea re debate. A great shame there are no head to head hustings. The questionnaire idea was half way to that and will be implemented as we move into phase three. Not sure about an online debate. Have taken part in 'phone meetings and messenger and the like.
Perhaps we can talk about a format that would work or you can email me suggestions to
idea at mcr1 dot poptel dot org dot uk.
Thanks by the way for all the suggestions for the candidate questionnaire. Keep 'em coming.
I think an online "question time" with the candidates would be great. Perhaps one candidate at a time with an open question session moderated by someone neutral. We could inform all members of the time/place and those with online facilities can join in. The 'gist'of it could be put in the SMR perhaps for the info of those without online access. Just a thought. I'td be great to hear more views on this exciting idea. Top one suzanne!!
Or how about Chris sends questions to the candidates and we publish them online.
There would have to be a word limit on answers.
how do we let more members than visit this site see the exchange of views.
Chris
How many hits are you getting a day?
Is it increasing?
We could just hand out the address to everyone we meet?
Traffic is increasing. But the stats are not for the public domain at this stage.
We could print out each candidate's answers to a questionnaire I suppose and have a kind of "poster session" ahead of the final hustings?
If the CLP or the region or the combined candidates wanted to fund the posting of them to all members that don't have email (who would get an email) that'd also be grand.
Please do give the URL out. WE are a long way short of the full membership of Withington CLP.
Ooops. The ones with email addresses would get emails. The ones without wouldn't. Do the candidates have lists with email addresses on? Or just the names, addresses and telephone numbers?
Chris - why are there no head to head hustings? I thought that was part of the selection process? Surely if the winning candidate is to take on Leech they need to be able to stand their own in such an environment.
I am quite shocked at the level of debate this has provoked but its all good stuff on the whole :0)
I agree with you that we need more focus on policy and real political debate - plus that’s the best way to engage the membership during the process and afterwards. It’s why people join the party after all.
Tee hee I am enjoying reading your blog and all the contributors. Great Fun!
Chris - The Party do this type of online debate all the time with various ministers. The CLP could ask the Regional Office if they would be willing to set it up? Not sure if it is technically possible but worth a try if people think it is a good idea and the candidates are up for it. Sx
Thanks Suzanne Please do check it out, yes. It is absolutely amazing that there is no head to head hustings. I'm not sure whether one could be independently organised within the rules. But by some spooky coincidence the final hustings - one at a time - is in the school attended many years ago by one of the candidates!
There is also a reasonable rule about not disparaging other candidates which means that as well as the hard questions for all possibly not getting asked in the formal process, the hard questions for one or other of them also cannot be easily put.
We're all for good schools, great hospitals, clean streets etc. But what I'd really like to know is where candidates stand on the spectrum of our party. With whom they are connected. What they stand for. What ammo they would be giving Leech if they were the candidate.
Because let's make no bones about it. He has shown he is extremely ruthless, extremely dishonest, yet strangely charming for some voters. He will go for the jugular.
Even in dear sweet Chorlton I was a little surprised at one or two of the endorsements being given. Considering who they were from and what I that I knew about the speakers and what I know from google about the candidates concerned.
Keep making suggestions as to how we can quiz all the candidates on line so we can see what they are made of and waht they stand for. Any candidates reading this blog could make it clear they would be up for such a grilling providing the rules were fair to everyone.
I've spoken to Jenny and she is happy to take part in any sort of e-hustings.
Obviously it would have to be organisied around candidates' work commitments.
Erm...am I missing something here...isn't any individual able to email/phone any candidate to ask a question directly?
Or does that remove the ability to play to a gallery of bloggers?
Ivor
Some candidates will say different things to different voters.
Like Lib Dems do!
An open forum stops that duplicity.
I am happy to take part in an online event. I welcome the chance to answer any questions members have.
Just let me know the details please. You can email me at nargis@nargiskhan
Sorry. Full email address is nargis@nargiskhan.com
Ivor Perspective I think is missing the point about an online debate.
It enables us to compare the candidates whilst questioning them at the same time / under the same conditions (therefore fair).
It also tests the metal of the candidates. As the one who is finally selected will have to be capable of taking Leech on in much less friendly forums.
Post a Comment