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UPDATE: Justice For England March is Pathetic
There were about 120 people on this much vaunted march. There is a picture of them looking pathetic at the link.
Meanwhile right wing bloggers took umbrage at the Speaker of the Commons (a Scot) "banning" the march. Which simply is not true. Perhaps saving their blushes with a re-route.
This is about 10% of turnout for a similar event in 2002. Did they really hand in a 20,000 name petition?
24 comments:
Yeah, I watched that one go by actually.
120 maximum I would have said.
You really don't get it do you. It's Labour's typical Pavlovian response to anything English: call it right-wing and ridicule it.
It's you that is pathetic.
Labour will get their comeuppance when the gerrymandered constitution is rectified and they can no longer use their Scottish and Welsh lobby fodder to influence English politics.
It's called democracy, you should try it sometime.
Mmmm Toque - I'm not a great fan of an English Parliament and I was worried about fascists taking this thing over; but whatever we believe about either if these we can agree that a march of 120 or less that doesn't even get covered on its own website and its own dormant blog is in a word ...
PATHETIC
Englishness itself is OK. I'm mostly Irish myself with a smattering of welsh and allegedly french. Partner though is an undefeated anglo from Kent - Invicta and all that. 1066 passed them by it seems.
Just because you support Bush and Blair, butchers of Baghdad, Iraqi genocide, health apartheid in Britain, etc, please do not visit your garbled attempts at logic - and bigoted assumptions about my political beliefs - on me.
You, my dear detractor, are nothing more nor less than an anti-fascist fascist.
Sadly, there's a lot of it about.
What about libertarians who believe this English deserve a parliament as well? Are they right-wing?
Excuse me for not updating the J4E site as quickly as you would like - we are a volunteer organisation trying to get our voice heard against the might of the Party establishment and a media engine that is actively encouraged to ignore all things English.
The story of the march will be up soon....
The sneering invective amazes me - instead of sucking your pencil and going all Oscar Wilde, why not actually try and take an objective approach? If you live in England and you're ill and need drugs you'll pay nearly 7 quid for the privilege of a prescription (free in Wales - and around £3.50p in Scotland). If you live in England and you're dying of bowel, breast, lung and bone cancers or dribbling your life away from Alzheimer’s you will not get the drugs available FREE for everyone else in the UK and the rest of Europe. If you're old and live in England you will not receive free residential care - you'll have to sell your home. (available FREE for every senior citizen in Scotland). If you are a student in England, you will have to pay 3 grand a year in tuition fees - plus even more when the top ups on the top ups are introduced - (obviously Scotland and Wales are different - none in Scotland, grants available in Wales - and if an English student wants to study in Scotland, they are effectively 'fined' by the Scots Unis in order to deter them from coming). Then there is West Lothian, then there is Barnett, then there is the lack of an English Parliament....
Do you think that is right? Is it sustainable? What's your answer?
A guy in our village died last week because our local PCT wouldn't give out a bone cancer drug that would have saved his life. This bloke had paid in all his life - and when he really needed the NHS, they said "Sod off' - the drug is too expensive to be given to anyone in England..... it is however freely available, for FREE to everyone in Scotland, Wales and every other European country. Doesn't that make you proud? Hey, do you think the claim that Tone made in 1997 that he had 48 hours to save the NHS has actually been accomplished? Maybe he just meant to save the NHS in his native Scotland?
People like you choose to totally ignore what is really going on in this country. Rather than flagging up these appalling acts of government sponsored apartheid you choose to ignore it, preferring to habitually sneer at people who are trying to change things.
In a word, that really is PATHETIC. People are dying in England simply because of which country they are. Maybe your lather should be directed towards Tone, Gordon and the rest? Maybe you should be asking why such inequality is happening in the oh-so-fantastic You Kay?
Oh, and by the way, thanks for confirming that 'Englishness was OK' - that's SOOOOO Billy Bragg isn't it? (Does that mean that Englishness is OK as long as we don't actually express our Englishness?)
Also, if you live in England, being 'mostly Irish' will not stop you from being discriminated against if you get cancer. While your body is falling apart, be sure to remain stoically intellectual and remember that your noble sacrifice is necessary to preserve NuLabour and the Scots dominated Union. Remember, your sacrifice will enable someone in one of the other countries of the UK to get the treatment.... Because like it or not, your life appears not to be as valuable as others within the UK.
And if you're old, knackered & infirm and they need to stick you in a home, being 'mostly Irish' will not stop them from selling off your home to pay for the care.... better hide the computer though - they'll sell that off as well if they can.
And got kids? - well when they are at school, you'll no doubt be relieved to know that the Turkey Twizzler industry is in rude health mainly due to the fact that kids in England are allocated a budget of under 40 pence per child for a school meal..... In Scotland, the allowance is almost a £1. Being mostly Irish will not stop your kids from being fed mechanically retrieved offal, cow lips, udders, intestines, one or all of the many bovine stomach parts and every other slice of unmentionable grot taken from a dead cow - whilst in Scotland.... Well it's not exactly Lobster Thermador - but you get the drift, it's a Twizzler free zone.
And then they leave and go to Uni'. Being offspring from someone who is mostly Irish will not stop them from having to pay 3 grand a year and rising for the privilege of learning..... Whilst elsewhere in the UK, hey learning is fun - learning is FREE.
I find it so PATHETIC that you rubbish the efforts of people trying to raise the profile of these outrages rather than actually doing something about it yourself.
I find it so PATHETIC that you continue to give your support to a God awful Party devoid of honour, honesty and full to the gunwales with sleaze, lies and incompetence.
Yeah, you're right, 'PATHETIC' really is the word all right.
Chris, your attitude towards the march clearly demonstrates your attitude towards an English parliament - I was in no need of a clarification.
You were worried about fascists taking this thing over? I rather think you would love to have seen fascists take the march over. What you can't abide is the fact that there are civic progressive English nationalists willing to voice their dissent.
However small our number you'd rather devote your energies to attacking us than attacking the people that might hijack our march.
Well said Alfie ... waits with baited breath for an intelligent response
Alfie,
If I've ever seen a broadside that should literally have shook someone's world that was it.
I'm sure that we are all waiting with baited breath.
Sadly I think Chris is one of those that would rather shoot the messenger than listen to the message.
Arrogance breeds contempt.
Mmmm. Welcome people. The turn out at the march was absolutely pathetic. There is no way round that conclusion.
There was no MSM coverage that I could find whatsoever. And I am therefore baffled as to why there is no DIY coverage at your blog and site.
See last paragraph.
The bloggers preview coverage was on the bogus basis of the "banning" of the march by a cunning spoilsport Scot (naturally) which wasin fact a routine re-route that all regular demonstrators are quite inured to.
I do not support Blair and Bush's war in any way shape or form and attended my first anti-war demo in September 2001, yes 2001. And have had Blairite ministers running away from meetings where I have expressed my disgust at their dossier and their slavish affection for the USA.
However only the Greens and the BNP were convincingly set against the war and to have Tories lecturing on this is also P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.
Funnily enough I am also NOT a fan of NHS devolution and the false god of CHOICE. Perhaps you lot can provide an intelligent response to this?
Choice is what drives different PCTs and SHAs to have different policies on prescriptions and treatments across the UK.
I'm for UNIFORM QUALITY SERVICES and prescription everywhere on the basis of the same clinical priorities and efficacy of treatments.
From my POV this is NOT a matter of devolution of nations it is about devolution to local areas and the inevitable result in that being DIFFERENCE.
Do you lot support devolution of health choices to local hospitals etc or not?
If you do then you need to accept that in picking up that particular stick you also get the other end - the shitty end - which is a variety of clinical priorities and approaches.
Anyway, you're all welcome here.
But given how long it would have taken to have blogged your march or ftp a few pics and a short report to your website I think you have allowed yourselves to be deflected and could have made some PR for your event instead of extensive trolling here. See if you can resist this time.
"From my POV this is NOT a matter of devolution of nations it is about devolution to local areas and the inevitable result in that being DIFFERENCE."
Oh no, here we go again. There is no possible redress of the balance in localism. There is no way that any local "region" in England will ever be afforded the same legislative powers as the national bodies in Scotland and Wales. University top up fees in some areas of England but not others? Free prescriptions in some areas of England and not others? Free elderly care in some areas of England and not others? Free drugs in some areas of England and not others?
And that is the solution to asymetrical devolution? It's an utter fantasy.
Devolving to national bodies everywhere except England is the same as admitting that all areas of Scotland and all areas of Wales are equally advantaged or deprived. That is also a falacy.
No the real reasons for devolution were political and not based upon need and it has all gone terribly wrong.
Alfie
Too long mate.
No-one will read it.
Sorry mate. We already do have free drugs, different elderly care provision, wholly different schools provision by postcode within England.
This is a result IMO of pandering to localism - a disaster for many cancer patients in England. And a rich seam for media-by-anecdote postcide lottery scoops and exposes.
We both know that postcode lotter education is an entirely different issue from state legislation and University top up fees. We both know that when you say we have free drugs you are ignoring the issue of national drug bodies not opperating on the national level hence the difference in provision. We both know that a decision by the state to offer free elderly care makes it the responsibility of local areas to do so and that no such responsibility exists in England.
Chris Paul's lack of empathy or understanding is proof of the darkness in the heart of NULabour supporters.
'Trolling'?
Hardly, you wrote something disparaging and we have come to defend our position.
I note that you don't defend yours. You disagree with New Labour yet you appear to be some sort of party worker or cheerleader.
Bloody half-wit.
You appear to indulge in personal attacks! The attendance at the march was pathetic. The coverage of the march was pathetic. The defenders of the march from these two statements of fact are conflating these facts with the mission of the march.
Also confusing the inauguration of an English Parliament as an institution as being necessary or desirable to deal with very real problems that exist - whoever is in government where.
The fact you like the policies in Scotland and Wales - and I agree in many instances, both are after all more SOCIALIST than London - does not mean that you need a parliament or an assembly in England to get improvements.
AND, if these socialist ideas are what you are after, as you disingenuously imply, then I'm sorry but inventing an English Parliament is not likely to get you there now is it?
If however you want England to be a more viable prospect for right wing parties or centre right parties if you prefer then it is a complete mystery to me why you give examples of more socialist choices as your argument.
History does not show too many Tory socialists and the Toff Cameron is an unlikely candidate.
Any action on that website yet chaps?
Chris
Your annual tax bill as a resident of England is estimated (assuming you're on an average income) to be £700 per year higher than it should be in order for this British Government to spend £1500 more per annum on every person in Scotland than they do on every resident of England.
Think about it - your tax bill is higher than it should be in order for the Scots and Welsh to have luxuries you, as a resident of England, are not entitled to on the grounds of cost or sham legislation forced on the English by decisive votes from Scottish MPs who knew the same legislation didn't apply to their own constituents.
Got any children about to go to university? do you have any home owning elderly relatives who need care? know anybody suffering from cancer? know anybody on the minimum wage who needs regular prescriptions - 1.5hrs pay = prescription charge.
Thought not - if you did you'd care. And you obviously don't mind writing a £700 cheque for the Scots every year.
Sorting that out does not require an English Parliament does it? Well does it?
Next you'll be explaining how various Northern Cities are a strain on the exchequer and calling for a UDI for London ...
I'm all for solidarity myself. And anyway lots of wealth created in Scotland and Manchester is bandied about in London ... which is not the same thing as being earned there.
Chris
Your deluded obfuscation of points made in absolute clarity fools nobody - including yourself i think. Blind loyalty to the morally and intellectually bankrupt Nu Labour cause.
What are you on about?
Don't you have a name?
The march was a failure.
The publicity of it was zip.
Those are my points.
But I don't see why CEP is needed to deliver what you (say you) want.
This is not a big issue for me either way. I am certainly not a NL stooge in any way!
They will confirm this!
As Burke said elsewhere the precedence of these parliaments and assemblies is not well understood.
"But I don't see why CEP is needed to deliver what you (say you) want."
Chris, who else in government is currently pointing out the issues raised above?
No one in government or in recognisable opposition in Westminster represents our views on the disadvantaged. So, we argue for a voice for them. We have found the current lot completely wanting, lacking, failing. So we argue for equality on the national level. We are an inevitable by product of inequality and disenfranchisement. Had our representatives had their wits about them it could have been entirely avoided. Instead they choose so sacrifice equality for short term political gain.
You are clearly against us; that's fine. However you should realise that you are in a rapidly dwindling minority. Where once we were just a handful, we have now exceeded a consensus. Given the opportunity of a referendum even your glorious leader has admitted that we would vote YES for our own national democratic executive and parliament...yet the establishment is intent at avoiding that at all costs.
That's not just pathetic...it is immoral.
Chris Paul
Just another nancy boy, commie, tree hugging, animal welfare spouting wannabe victim.
Hey boy, have nu labour been kicked out of wales yet? HA! HA!
They got stuffed in scotland. HA! HA!
Engerland is next moron!
OH WHAT A SHAME. NO MORE NU LABOUR SCUM TO FIGHT WITH.
Bye! Bye! HA! HA!
Oh and by the way sonny, nu labour is going down whilst the pro-English are going up.
Don't bother replying loser!
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